minori sends another email to NNL
July 12th, 2010, by
Posted in Translation
, Tagged: minori, No Name Losers
After apparently receiving no response from No Name Losers to an email asking for them to stop their activities, minori has now sent another email to No Name Losers, this time publishing the contents of their email on (at least the) overseas-facing portion of their official website. From the contents of the email, it appears that minori has taken a slightly less confrontational stance, making clear their belief that NNL is infringing on their rights and what they believe to be the negative effects of NNL’s actions while no longer directly threatening legal action. Furthermore, from minori’s new requests, it appears that they have now learned more about NNL’s future plans as well and would like NNL to cease with those as well.
2010年7月12日に私たちはNO NAME LOSERSの皆さんに次のメールをお送りしました。
NO NAME LOSERS の皆さんへ
以前にもメールでお願いいたしましたが、
貴方たちが私たちの願いを受け入れて頂けなかったこと、
非常に残念に思います。貴方たちが私たちが制作し販売している「ef – the first tale.」、「ef – the latter tale.」及びPS2版「ef – fairy tale of the two.」（以下、「ef」と総称する）や「eden*」、その他のソフトウェアについて英語に翻訳を行い、私たちの許可無く公開する行為は、各国が相互に批准する著作権法の翻訳権および公衆送信権を侵害する違法行為です。
私たちが既に発売している「ef」について貴方たちが許諾無く翻訳し、しかもグラフィック、音声、映像、音楽、そしてその他全ての内容を不特定多数に対しネットワークを通じ公開したことは、海賊版の頒布行為と同様であり、それは私たちだけが持つ権利を侵害しているのです。また「eden*」や、私たちが9月に日本国内で発売を予定している「天使の日曜日」についても翻訳し不特定多数に頒布する行為を予告しておりますが、こちらも違法行為にほかなりません。特に単独で起動するソフトウェアを不特定多数に提供する行為は私たちが創作者として得た権利全てを否定する行為ではないでしょうか？
貴方たちは私たちのファンを自称していらっしゃいますが、私たちは貴方たちの行為は私たちを傷つけるばかりで、ファンとは言い難いと思っています。
私たちは貴方たちに以下の全てをお願いします。
1.「ef」およびそれに関連する作品を翻訳したものを、私たちの許可無く不特定多数に頒布をしないこと。
2.「eden*」を翻訳したものを、私たちの許可無く不特定多数に頒布しないこと。
3.「天使の日曜日」を翻訳したものを、私たちの許可無く不特定多数に頒布しないこと。
4.その他、過去に私たちが発売した全ての作品についても同様に、私たちの許可無く翻訳したものを不特定多数に頒布しないこと。
5.今後、私たちの発売する全ての作品についても同様に、私たちの許可無く翻訳したものを不特定多数に頒布しないこと。
6.引用権やフェアユースの範囲を越えて、私たちのWebサイトや作品中から画像などを無断で引用しないこと。私たちは作品を作るために莫大なお金や長い時間を掛け、そして、自らの命を賭しています。貴方たちはそうした多くの犠牲の中から生まれてくる、いわば、私たちの努力の結晶を、貴方たちの快楽といった身勝手な理由で壊そうとしています。
もし、貴方たちが本当に私たち”minori”のファンであり、私たちの生み出す作品に今後も期待しているというのであれば、どうか私たちの未来を閉ざす違法行為をいますぐにやめてください。繰り返しお願いいたします。
2010年7月12日
株式会社ミノリ追伸1:もし、貴方たちが私たちから正式なライセンスを受け、レーティング等、私たちの求める手順を踏み、英語圏で販売もしくは頒布をするということであれば、私たちのオフィスにいらして、ライセンス許諾のための交渉をすることは可能です。私たちは正式な手順を踏んで頂けることを期待しています。
追伸2:このメールの内容はminoriのWebサイトにて公開いたします。
The following is a translation:
We sent the following email to the people at NO NAME LOSERS on July 12, 2010:
To everyone at NO NAME LOSERS,
With regards to the email we have sent you previously regarding our wishes, we find it very unfortunate that you have not complied with our requests.
It is an infringement of the right to translation and public distribution, as outlined in mutually ratified international treaties, to translate and distribute without permission our software products, including “ef – the first tale.”, “ef – the latter tale.” as well as “ef – fairty tale of the two.” (hereafter referred to as “ef”) and “eden*”, etc.
It is a violation of our rights (in very much the same way as a pirate release) for you to translate without permission our already-released product “ef” and in addition make publicly available the graphics, sound, videos, music as well as the rest of the content in the game on the Internet. Furthermore, you have stated that you have plans to translate and disseminate to the general public [literally, an unspecified number of people] “eden*” as well as “Tenshi no Nichiyoubi”, scheduled for a September release in Japan; this is nothing more than illegal activity as well. Isn’t providing to the general public a standalone piece of software [of our games] a full rejection of all the rights to which we, as creators, are entitled?
You proclaim that you are fans of us, but your actions only hurt us, and thus we think it is difficult for you to be truly called fans.
We request all of the following of you:
1. To not distribute translations of “ef” and related works to the general public without our permission.
2. To not distribute translations of “eden*” to the general public without our permission.
3. To not distribute translations of “Tenshi no Nichiyoubi” to the general public without our permission.
4. To not distribute translations of any of our past works to the general public without our permission.
5. To not distribute translations of any of our future works to the general public without our permission.
6. To not use without limits, beyond the scope of quotation and fair use: images, etc. from our works and our website.In order to produce our works, we have put in vast amounts of time and money and put our lives at stake. You are trying to destroy the fruits of our labors reaped from these many sacrifices with “fun” as your selfish reason.
If you really are fans of us, minori, and if you are looking forward to what we will produce in the future, then please immediately stop these illegal actions that are going to shut the doors to our future. Again, we would like to request you to [comply with us].
July 12, 2010
minori Inc.P.S.: If you wish to obtain an official license from us, handle the ratings issue, follow our requested procedures and sell and/or distribute [our software] within English-speaking circles, then there is the possibility of your visiting our office and discussing with us a license agreement. We would look forward to people following the proper procedure for getting things done.
P.P.S.: The contents of this email will be published on minori’s website.
UPDATE: No Name Losers’ webpage has been replaced by a page claiming they are in discussions with minori in both English and (somewhat odd) Japanese.
No Name Losers is down until further notice.
We have begun preliminary discussions with the CEO of minori, nbkz Sakai.
Thank you for your understanding.No Name Losersは追っての通知があるまで閉鎖します。
minoriのC.E.O. nbkz Sakaiと予備的な討論を始まります。
ご理解くださり、ありがとうございます。
UPDATE 2: minori has also updated their website, indicating they are in talks with NNL:
2010年7月14日から私たちminoriとNO NAME LOSERSの皆さんとの間で発展的な交渉を開始しています。どのような結果になるかまだわかりませんが、遠くない未来に皆さんに結果をご報告できればと思います。今しばらくお待ち下さい。よろしくお願いします。
A translation of the above:
Starting on July 14, 2010, we at minori have started constructive negotiations with the people at NO NAME LOSERS. We don’t know what will result from this, but we would like to report our results to everyone in the not-too-distant future. For now, please wait for the time being. Thanks.
The second and third times they updated their site, they had this to say:
2010年7月17日、私たちからの提案をNO NAME LOSERSの皆さんにお送りしました。
私たちのメールに対する第一回目の回答期限は7月21日午前中（日本時間）と設定しました。
たくさんのblogなどでこの件が取り上げられていますが、私たちとNNLの皆さんは前向きな議論を開始したと確信しています。
海外の多くのファンの皆様、いましばらくお待ち下さい。P.S.No Name Losersの皆さんから第一回目の提案についてお返事を頂きました。
ありがとうございます！
A translation reads:
On July 17, 2010, we sent our proposal to the people at NO NAME LOSERS. We’ve set the deadline for replying to us to be noon on July 21, 2010, JST. This incident has been written about on many blogs, etc. [TL: I assume minori is implying here that some of the writeups indicate that NNL and minori are not serious], but we are confident that NNL and us have started forward-looking discussions. For the many fans we have overseas, please wait for the time being.
PS: We have received a reply from NO NAME LOSERS with regards to our first proposal! Thank you very much!
A fourth update reads:
2010年7月21日、私たちは、私たちの作品を英語圏でリリースするため、NO NAME LOSERSの皆さんに協力を頂き、新たな枠組みを構築する作業を続けています。
本件については7月28日以降に新たなお知らせをできればと思います。
いましばらくお待ち下さい。
which means in English:
As of July 21, 2010, we have received NNL’s cooperation and are continuing to develop a new plan for the release of our works in English-speaking circles. We hope to have new information for you after July 28, so please wait for the time being.
NNL’s website now reflects this:
No Name Losers is down until further notice.
We are currently undergoing serious discussions with minori.
Please wait a little longer.
No Name Losersは追っての通知があるまで閉鎖します。
minoriと真剣な話し合いが進んでおります。
いましばらくお待ちください。
UPDATE 3: NNL’s website now embeds a YouTube video of a piano performance of ebullient future, the opening theme to the 2nd season of the animated adaptation of ef – a fairy tale of the two.
UPDATE 4: Both minori and NNL websites indicate an announcement may be possible in the next couple of days.
minori’s addendum:
7月29日追記：少し遅れていますが、あと数日で何らかのお知らせができる可能性があります。
今しばらくお待ち下さい。
Translation of minori’s addendum:
PS (July 29): We’re a little late, but we might be able to make an announcement in a couple of days. Please wait for the time being.
NNL:
There was to be an announcement on July 28th, but it has been temporarily delayed for special reasons.
Hopefully we can announce something within the next 48 hours. (July 30th or 31st)
Thank you for your continuing patience. Enjoy the music in the meantime!
As of writing, the current track on their player was LOOPCUBE’s remix of the Wind game opening along with random voice samples called “Wind -limited freedom mix-”.
July 12th, 2010 at 9:02 pm
they have HIRED someone to write their C&D email, that much is sure.
as for “Fair use,” haven’t you guys sent a C&D emails to sites the host wallpaper images of your titles?
minori, i have only one thing to say, I am avoiding your releases, even the pirated ones.
July 12th, 2010 at 9:15 pm
>>1 (random.idiot)
We didn’t send any C&D emails, or did you mean minori? ;)
July 12th, 2010 at 9:33 pm
>>2 (zalas)
will I am an idiot, so what did you expect.
but yes, I was replying to minori, sorry for the ambiguous post.
July 12th, 2010 at 9:53 pm
Poor minori. nnl are threating their very existence!
July 12th, 2010 at 9:58 pm
>>random.idiot
Wasn’t the wallpaper site konachan? Halting translations = understandable to a certain degree. Getting rid of all images related to a FICTION game = ridiculous.
Anyway, it’s kind of funny how minori changed their tone with NNL. You know that they can’t do shit even with their C&D letters. In the end I doubt NNL is going to give a rat’s ass about what minori has to say and probably just give them the finger AGAIN. They’re probably going to just troll again and just fuck around with minori.
And much as I hate pirating games because I like to support the companies that make them, I love pirating minori games. Seriously. I mean minori doesn’t even sell their fucking games outside of Japan, so how the hell are the ones pirating from different countries going to hurt their sales? Oh the irony~
Go NNL.
Fuck minori.
NNL = #1 minori fans.
July 12th, 2010 at 10:15 pm
So are minori still gaijin-blockin’?
July 12th, 2010 at 10:18 pm
Ima sekai chuu no subete no hito ni
Sotto todoketai no watashi no ai o
Tenshi no sasayaki hora
MERODII NOSETEEE
Naze ga tameiki SETSUNAI BOI
(Dame dame achaa dame)
Suteki na yume o misete ageru
(Dame dame kore ijou dame)
KIMI NO HAAATO WOOOOOO NERAIUCHIII NANO
(Dame dame koitsu nya iu dake muda)
July 12th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
So for those who wants the summary of that letter,
Its this:
minori: “Please NNL, stop translating our games without permission. I beg of you, you are trolling our fruit of labor. T_T”
hmm..I bet NNL will give them the “finger” again. lol
July 12th, 2010 at 11:39 pm
NNL = murderers
they put minori’s life at steak.
July 13th, 2010 at 12:06 am
What NNL is doing pains me and I can empathize with minori and their now-brewing hatred of Gaijin fans overseas. The spirit of the fansubber was originally in service to the very companies that brought over the product. We’re not trying to harm their livelihood, we wish to promote it. Outwardly we are pirates. But inwardly we are fans and we wish to see these products, on shelves, overseas. Fan translations must continue. Sorry minori.
Until a day when every major VN title gets a Western release, we have to keep doing what we do.
July 13th, 2010 at 12:30 am
after seeing what a piece of shit ef was i don’t even give a shit anymore tbh
July 13th, 2010 at 4:09 am
Unlike last time, I’m not worried at all. Minori has demonstrated that they have no real power, and have resorted to begging. I am confident that NNL will continue, this time only with additional spite to motivate them.
It’s a really sad situation to have the fans and the creators pitched against each other like this, but when minori acts like this, there is really no other likely outcome. I just hope this incident doesn’t harm the relationship of other companies with the west, such as a possible mangagamer/overfl0w/sekaiproject joint.
In any case, wishing you the best, NNL!
July 13th, 2010 at 4:46 am
by the way, does the message appear on their Japanese side of the site… or just on our side?
it is ironic if the message is only published on their “buzz of page” while saying it is “published on their site,” since it indicates, from their prospective, that the buzz of page is (from our prospective) their site.
July 13th, 2010 at 5:45 am
I hope that if they’ve gone this far in their attempt to halt the english translations, they’re going through as much, if not more, effort to halt translation in other languages. Maybe it’s because I pay more attention to C&Ds that relate to english fantranslation groups, but I’m getting the impression that they’re putting in a disproportionate effort into halting the english while allowing others (ie: chinese, etc).
…so, eden*. Can’t wait for the full translation, hopefully someone does it.
July 13th, 2010 at 6:07 am
Correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t the translations that No Name Losers doing just patches for the games? Wouldn’t that just make it a mod? And last time I checked, there’s nothing wrong with modding software that you already own.
To be honest, they may say that they’re protecting themselves from piracy, but the real motive is to stop us gaijin from reading their porno games. Seems like they’re still freaked out about that CNN headline from a while ago about how terrible and scary eroge is. They must think they’re really important and well-known.
But who am I to disagree with them? I mean, they did put their lives at stake to make ef.
July 13th, 2010 at 6:31 am
nah they release teh full game with the tl
July 13th, 2010 at 6:46 am
Whatever happened to respecting the creators wishes?
July 13th, 2010 at 7:17 am
>16
it’s gone with the ip block
July 13th, 2010 at 8:48 am
Please respect the wishes of the creators. These are not our games. They are not meant for us. If you truly love minori and you are truly a fan of their games then you will respect their wishes and not buy them and you will not play them. Only by not playing these games will you truly show that you are respecting and supporting minori. There is no eroge company more deserving of our respect than minori. Please, please respect their wishes.
July 13th, 2010 at 9:06 am
>>11 (Doku)
You could easily also say “when NNL acts like this”. Remember, it takes two to tango. While minori hasn’t really been very friendly in their dealings with their fan base (see ExtractData for another example), you can’t really say that NNL is faultless, either. As for influencing other companies’ opinions, I don’t think minori has very close ties with the current MangaGamer companies, but I wouldn’t put it past them to point out this incident as an example of fan translation projects.
>>12 (random.idiot)
It appears to only show up on the foreign-facing site. Well, it should be normal for it to at least appear on the overseas-facing site, or the recipients of the email would have a difficult time verifying the email’s claims in the post-postscript. In context, the “website” is their overseas-facing site, because their recipient lives overseas. Besides, if they put it on their normal website, like in the diary or something, all they’re going to do is just get their domestic fans riled up about NNL’s actions. Although, it looks like their blog turned into a food blog that hasn’t been updated for a year, whereas it used to be more varied several years back.
>>17 (Anon)
I guess that raises the question of whether it’s possible to be a fan of the current and future works of creators but not be a fan of the creators themselves. Does looking forward to future games put one at odds with not liking the source of those future games?
July 13th, 2010 at 9:45 am
>Whatever happened to respecting the creators wishes?
Or maybe even, whatever happened to self respect, I’d say.
To stick with translating something from the guys (minori) who seem to be totally fine with going as far as to humiliate themselves in this way. Honestly (if I was the one translating these things) I personally would have just stopped for the sheer amount of 見苦しさ and facepalm of the situation.
July 13th, 2010 at 9:46 am
*Sigh I still dont get it, they say they publish video music and all that stuff, yet, I don’t see it! I just see a translation of the script and some GC. D:
But aside that, I really want to read Eden* D: Have it sitting around in my room for months. D:
July 13th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
So now everytime a dirty gaijin goes on minori’s website, he can see that there are some people translating ef and eden.
Good job Minori. You’re trolling yourself by advertising NNL.
July 13th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
Well I feel kinda bad for Minori, but I mean even if they aren’t offering a reasonable alternative and they aren’t willing to fight a legal battle (which would probably be far to costly and messy to be worth it anyways) then these letters aren’t gonna do much.
It would be one thing if they made an attempt to try and compromise by trying to work with JAST or Mangagamer. But if they don’t care enough to try to provide for fans over here then what are they really losing by all of this? After all they don’t seem to have an interest in the American market. Or to put it another way how is losing costumers they won’t sell to anyways actually hurting the company?
July 13th, 2010 at 2:24 pm
minori deserves to get treated like this. After being an asshole to everyone, now they’re practically begging NNL to stop. An eye for an eye I say.
Pathetic.
July 13th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
After such a pathetic and ridiculous display of xenophobia minori is indeed reaping the results of it’s own actions.
July 13th, 2010 at 5:31 pm
>>”minori deserves it for the emotional damage we have suffered by their xenophobia”
>>”therefore imma pirate their games and imagine i am punishing them, hurr”
>>(“i pirate mangagamer games as well but i’m not gonna say that out loud here, smartface.jpg”)
July 13th, 2010 at 7:02 pm
>>”If you really are fans of us, minori, and if you are looking forward to what we will produce in the future, then please immediately stop these illegal actions that are going to shut the doors to our future.”
Yes. We are fans overseas and we wish to SHUT the door to YOUR future. The future you envision is a Japanese-only market. We are going to break that. Visual Novels will be an international market.
And who the heck is going to bring about this change? The Japanese companies? No – they are too insular, too narrow-minded, (too racist) to consider expanding their market. It’s going to be the fansubbers.
July 13th, 2010 at 7:47 pm
Dude, its eroge. :S
And troll stances like this is only gonna force other companies to think twice before introducing their products overseas.
July 13th, 2010 at 7:50 pm
@26 – and nitro+!
July 13th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
>>26 (Aaeru)
Fansubbers? Um… you know, there’s like a whole group of these eroge companies in Japan who are pushing to get their products out in English, and they’ve been doing it for a couple of years now. You might have heard of them; they’re represented by this company called MangaGamer…
July 13th, 2010 at 8:47 pm
>>29
The ones they translate suck.
What they really should be doing is enter blogs, forums, or this sort of stuff and see what the people really want.
Not just the X visual novel that appears at random in the Jap. market.
Or! None attract my attention >_>
July 13th, 2010 at 9:19 pm
durp hup respekt crator wiesh
hint: we dont fucking care
July 13th, 2010 at 9:48 pm
>18 (zalas): “Does looking forward to future games put one at odds with not liking the source of those future games?”
if a game is made by the KKK*, would you ignore who made it and go ahead and get it? I know that this is an extreme example, but they did tell us to buzz of because of our location.
in the case of minori, they didn’t just ask for the translator to “stop what they were doing,” but have turn around and attacked the foreign fans and blamed us for what is not our fault. The loli and rape ban have nothing to do with us.
minori is not the only company to block foreign visitors, and is not the only company to send C&D emails. But it is the only company (AFAIK) that have showed open hostility toward foreign fans (namely the English speaking ones) and have told us that we are not suppose to buy their stuff. I can only speak for myself, the hate that minori is receiving is because of the way they treated us and told us to buzz off, the C&D and the website block had nothing to do with it.
>26 (Aaeru)
I don’t know how to tell you this… but MG is made by Japanese companies.
P.S. I don’t know when will ‘key’ be flamed because of their “must run on Japanese Windows” limitation, but so far… they are fine since they didn’t tell us to go away.
P.S.S. (*) those who don’t know about the KKK can read about them at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan or visit one of their sites http://kukluxklan.bz/ (don’t visit this site from school or work)
July 13th, 2010 at 10:02 pm
This letter is actually not so bad, I really just was annoyed by the legal bluffing that so many people fold to. They have a million more reasons to crack down on pirates in Japan(/China/Korea) before they would do anything in other countries.
Really though, they made their stance clear, and as owners of the game I can respect them for that. The ‘reasoning’ however is pretty wacko as people have already said.
July 13th, 2010 at 10:06 pm
>What they really should be doing is enter blogs, forums, or this sort of stuff and see what the people really want.
Too bad there’s not enough people to form a good decision. There’s what, maybe a thousand or so of us? And judging by some of the comments, about 2% would actually fork over money.
Protip: Fan translation usually does not mean better quality.
>>31
0/10
July 13th, 2010 at 11:10 pm
japanese gaem for japanese people onry
July 13th, 2010 at 11:13 pm
demonbane, higurashi and kira kira suck?
what the heck do you expect out of your VNs, the second coming of jesus?
July 13th, 2010 at 11:20 pm
Minori is full of fear, but who can blame them. If I had a game with material released in a country that is not tolerant of such material, I would be scared. Their fear is probably based on the possibility of too much negative publicity surrounding their games once it hits american markets. As ignorant of the Japanese(and most other nationalities) the americans are, the oversees fans must realize that bad publicity in America will, inadvertently, affect the publicity and releases of their company.
July 14th, 2010 at 12:55 am
37>>”the oversees fans must realize that bad publicity in America will, inadvertently, affect the publicity and releases of their company.”
I agree. It is a really valid line of logic. We are being pulled together and viewed as the same lump as those people that brought us such greatness as RapeLay. To Japanese eyes it is tunnel-vision. All translations are bad. All translations result in RapeLay. We must axe all translation projects. If anything, it is fear of the unknown. The Japanese are a king at that.
July 14th, 2010 at 1:24 am
Dude NNL shutdown their site to talk with CEO of minori now
July 14th, 2010 at 1:38 am
>bad publicity in America will, inadvertently, affect the publicity and releases of their company
and my care meter isn’t even tingling
July 14th, 2010 at 1:40 am
if minori is worried about the adult part of their VNs, then I’ll support the console version if it includes the NNL translation. But this is just wishful thinking from my part.
I wish NNL good luck with their talk with minori
July 14th, 2010 at 1:52 am
Umi no PAZURU wo kumitate
Hizashi no MEERU todoitara
SHIMYUREESHON wo SUTAATO
Nami no oto ga kikoedasu yo
Tozasareta sekai kara
Shibaraku sayonara wo shite
Onozomi no wakusei he to
DAINAMIKKU ni dekakeyo
Yami ga samayou sekai de
Hikari no RAIN tsukande
Yume nara motto misasete
Tameiki ga deru hodo ni
July 14th, 2010 at 2:39 am
random romaji loss post that no one understands ftw
July 14th, 2010 at 3:05 am
As much as the term “poetic justice” can be applied here, this is a sad turn of events.
Even if minori are a bunch of xenophobic, racist jerks, NNL is way worse.
July 14th, 2010 at 4:08 am
If there’s one thing we can “trust” NNL to do, it’s troll everybody, so I take this new message on their site as nothing but evidence of exactly the opposite of whatever it says.
July 14th, 2010 at 5:03 am
NNL always makes it interesting, who the hell knows what’s actually going on Still, you just knew something was going to happen when they announced that eden* was there next project.
Personally, I’m looking forward to seeing how this unfolds, it will be entertaining.
July 14th, 2010 at 5:17 am
>33
Yeah… why aren’t they cracking down on the pirates in Japan first?
July 14th, 2010 at 6:10 am
>46
because japanese pirates are good and gaijins legimate users are bad, ofcourse
July 14th, 2010 at 6:37 am
>>36
Hm, sort of. But maybe it’s just that I really dont like the hentai part of games. So, most of the games released are well, lame for me.
[But none of the games you are naming are bad.]
But right now I was thinking. Why not, Mangagamer, or JAST join up with translators, as they did with all Nitro+ games that were being translated.
I really don’t know about that case. But it seems like a good idea. o___o
Although >_> They already have one year, and yet they have published at least one.
July 14th, 2010 at 8:20 am
“No Name Losers is down until further notice.
We have begun preliminary discussions with the CEO of minori, nbkz Sakai.
Thank you for your understanding.”
Troll ?
July 14th, 2010 at 9:09 am
If round 1 of minori vs. NNL was any indication, this whole thing just may be a big ramp up to the release of the “Genuine Draft” version of ef (or not).
July 14th, 2010 at 9:15 am
Jeez, was the Japanese portion of NNL’s message run through Google Translate or something? Not that it’s surprising that funsubbers can’t write in coherent Japanese, but still.
July 14th, 2010 at 9:36 am
>51
I can’t read Japanese but if it’s poorly written, I’m guessing they really did run it through Google translate – not because of the inability to write coherent japanese but because they want to play around with minori.
July 14th, 2010 at 9:38 am
it looks like they are not trolling.
on the minori website…
2010年7月14日から私たちminoriとNO NAME LOSERSの皆さんとの間で発展的な交渉を開始しています。どのような結果になるかまだわかりませんが、遠くない未来に皆さんに結果をご報告できればと思います。今しばらくお待ち下さい。よろしくお願いします。
July 14th, 2010 at 9:49 am
Well its never boring with these guys…
July 14th, 2010 at 9:54 am
I can only hope NNL is actually trying to troll them rather than to compromise.
This company deserves the worst.
July 14th, 2010 at 9:54 am
> 53
The email by minori wasn’t a troll but “discussions with the CEO”? lol, that’s a troll.
I eagerly await for eden*
July 14th, 2010 at 10:04 am
>56
no no, im just saying that minori posted something today that confirms nnl is negotiating with them. it says something like this…
in 14 07, 2010 minori and NO NAME LOSERS negotiations started for the development for everyone. Not know yet what the consequences will be, I hope you report the results in the distant future. Please wait for a while. Thank you.
i used google translate so im not too sure, sorry xD.
July 14th, 2010 at 11:36 am
2010年7月14日から私たちminoriとNO NAME LOSERSの皆さんとの間で発展的な交渉を開始しています。どのような結果になるかまだわかりませんが、遠くない未来に皆さんに結果をご報告できればと思います。今しばらくお待ち下さい。よろしくお願いします。
Why is minori even dealing with those bastards. You cannot work with a partner you cannot trust. You can work with other translation groups but you CAN’t work with NNL. It is a relationship of discord after all.
However I think total war is not a good thing for the fansubbing scene. So any settlement is better than nothing at all, even if it is NNL in an intimidating position. I wonder what 2ch thinks
July 14th, 2010 at 11:58 am
If only a reputable translation like [insert name of "reputable" translation group here] had translated ef and was working on eden* then all would be bliss…
July 14th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
I like the fact that they now are open for discussions regarding negotiations of selling licenses for an English translation. ^^ However, I doubt NNL and minori will come to a conclusion where NNL legally continues translating games from minori. Unless they plan on actually buying licenses, which is unlikely because they wouldn’t gain profit the way they’ve been going at it so far.
I wish for more companies to sell translated eroge, like Mangagamer and JAST. Though I prefer Mangagamer because we’re able to download the games right off their site. =)
July 14th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Well, fuck, basically, it looks like I have to eat my words. I really didn’t think NNL OR minori were at all interested in commercial translations, so I’m still kind of expecting this to be a troll… I just don’t see why NNL would approach minori just to troll them, though…
July 14th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
looks like all these eroge companies will love ACTA treaty when it comes through..
July 14th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
Only way NNL can contribute as a fan is to provide his/their translation script to the company which already experienced localizing eroge in the USA.
July 14th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
Everyone here sounds so pessimistic. This is a really big thing happening. Both sides are actually talking with each other instead of just bickering. And the result could be either be the best or worst thing to the western VN/eroge market.
Best possible good end:
NNL manages to convince Minori to test the western market. They choose a distributer (JAST/MG/ect.) and release, say, ef Genuine Draft legaly. Minori gets access to a new market and NNL gets compensation for their work. ef does well, and the western VN/eroge market gains a lot of steam.
-Minori’s fear of backlash from eroge may result in only an all-ages versions being released.
Bad end:
Talks break down, NNL continues where they left off, bring their trolling to high gear. Minori uses this incident and their influence as an example why the western market isn’t viable. This ultimately sparks an underground war between developer and translator that no one wants to be a part of.
Worst end:
Minori lures NNL to Japan. Once there, they execute a raid. NNL’s representative gets sewed for copyright infringement. Whatever the outcome, the translation scene realizes that they aren’t kidding, and go under a near permeant lockdown.
Everyone here seems to be betting the bad end will happen. I, on the other hand, am placing my bets on the good end, or something similar. guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
July 14th, 2010 at 8:16 pm
I hope Minori’s begging illustrates to the other translation groups how powerless the game companies are and continue with their projects.
July 14th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
@65:
0/10
July 14th, 2010 at 9:05 pm
If it’s a troll, it will be one for the ages. If not, more power to them.
July 14th, 2010 at 10:51 pm
>western VN/eroge market.
And we care about this because?
Hint: nobody fucking cares.
July 14th, 2010 at 10:58 pm
Also;
>underground war between developer and translator that no one wants to be a part of.
Bring it on. It will be RIAA+retards vs the people all over again.
July 14th, 2010 at 11:02 pm
Besides,
I actually think an all-out war between us vs them is actually a good idea.
Look at the music industry. Why do you think we can buy songs for like $1 nowadays if not for the pirates?
July 14th, 2010 at 11:36 pm
Well..shit..Its getting serious
July 15th, 2010 at 4:12 am
@68: Because you are not the target audience. There ARE people out there who care.
July 15th, 2010 at 7:42 pm
Why does everyone hate NNL? For gods sake, they are one of a very few amount of groups who translate GOOD vns. If it werent for them, we wouldnt even have a crappy version of EF (like that crap-job done on clannad AS). Dont look a gift horse in the mouth.
July 15th, 2010 at 8:32 pm
…And NNL is down.
July 15th, 2010 at 9:51 pm
@73, assuming he’s still reading, and for everyone blindly showing support for NNL:
NNL has been repeatedly making a mockery of the whole fan-translation business. No doubt they do good work, but while doing so, they make the whole scene look like a bunch of smug, self-entitled fucks who think they deserve everything because it’s on the Internet.
Not to mention undermining the efforts of almost everyone else who are trying their DAMN BEST to either fix the PR disaster after NNL is finished DICKING AROUND or are just trying to translate without being called the worst of names.
…And you know what the best end is? minori calling Gipface to Japan, and not just suing him, but ending his life. There,
July 15th, 2010 at 10:38 pm
@76, because of “fansubicecream.png”.
Even not counting the whole behavior problem on their behalf, there are people who are not really fond of how they handle translation. And I don’t mean literal vs liberal approach, as it is a can of worms on its own. I mean stuff like how they removed a third of wind because they thought it was boring or how they changed plot of ef based on 4chan post because they thought it would be fun or something.
July 16th, 2010 at 2:18 am
oh my god so much cocksucking it hurts
July 16th, 2010 at 2:59 am
god the news alone is turing(or already turned) into a battle on its own, I wonder what will happen to the outcome of this “talk” between NNL and minori.
NNL has a rather controversial reputation and minori is not really that popular with western fan base,what with the ip-blocking policy and empty legal threats, so I personally think that no matter which sides win, the majority of the fan base will laugh, and of course if they do come down to a compromise of sort, fan base will delight.
Though it would be a good laugh if NNL’s members actually think that going to Japan is a good idea.
July 16th, 2010 at 5:13 pm
@78. You know, these guys (NNL) are people too. And nice ones, at that. I should know, I’ve met some NNL staff IRL. Seriously, they’re not the stupid bastards you make them out to be.
July 16th, 2010 at 9:42 pm
minori updated their website but i can’t understand anything xD.
2010年7月17日、私たちからの提案をNO NAME LOSERSの皆さんにお送りしました。
私たちのメールに対する第一回目の回答期限は7月21日午前中（日本時間）と設定しました。
たくさんのblogなどでこの件が取り上げられていますが、私たちとNNLの皆さんは前向きな議論を開始したと確信しています。
海外の多くのファンの皆様、いましばらくお待ち下さい。
July 16th, 2010 at 10:22 pm
they will have an announcement on the 21st of July about their talk with NNL, and it seems like it going to be a positive announcement (I hope).
July 16th, 2010 at 10:28 pm
@84
thank you very much! n_n
July 17th, 2010 at 12:36 am
@83:
On July 17th 2010, we made our proposal to the members of NO NAME LOSERS. The morning of July 21st (Japanese time) has been established as the deadline for them to reply to our first e-mail. Undoubtedly the preceding will be picked up by many blogs, et cetera, but please know that the discussion between us and NNL is off to a positive start.
To our many fans overseas, please wait for a while.
July 17th, 2010 at 12:56 am
@86 (the_paper):
thanks for the translation
July 17th, 2010 at 2:09 am
It would seem that Minori’s quest for becoming the biggest douchebags in the history of eroge has yet to end. Jesus christ, these people only care about money
God-the-fucking-dammit, all this people care is money. What the fuck is wrong with mankind? What happened to people who care about their work being appreciated and nothing more? You can disagree with me as much as you want, but you have to admit that capitalism is ruining the artistic world. It’s always money. ALWAYS! GODDAMMIT, I’M TIRED OF THIS SHIT! LET OTHER PEOPLE APPRECIATE YOUR FUCKING WORK! WHO CARES ABOUT MONEY! SHOVE ALL THE MONEY YOU HAVE UP YOUR FUCKING ASS, YOU TWATS!
July 17th, 2010 at 3:05 am
minori updated site again:
P.S.No Name Losersの皆さんから第一回目の提案についてお返事を頂きました。
ありがとうございます！
It looks like NNL answered the first proposal or something like that.
July 17th, 2010 at 3:20 am
P.S. Name Losers Losers have answered on our first proposition. Thank you very much!
July 17th, 2010 at 4:06 am
@Metaler Yeah fuck being able to eat, have a place to live, and having enough extra income to buy your own products. Everyone should just give away their labor and ideas for free. Except for you, of course.
July 17th, 2010 at 9:27 am
@Metaler
As much as I don’t like the way minori has done things in the past, caring about money and profits is something I can understand and respect. At the end of the day they are a business and their goal isn’t to provide you shit for free.
July 17th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
anyone care to translate 89s update?
July 17th, 2010 at 3:33 pm
@Metaler Playing games isn’t a right by any stretch of the imagination, just like luxurious housing and food isn’t a right either. If you want things that go beyond bare necessities, you should have to pay for it.
If what they’re doing is getting the game overseas and making money for their hard work then that’s good. It’s not like fags aren’t just gonna figure out a way to pirate the damn thing either way. At least this way Minori can make some money for their work who aren’t complete and utter losers who believe they should get everything handed to them on a silver platter.
tl;dr – stfu, you whining baby
July 17th, 2010 at 3:43 pm
Dammit, I need and edit button, just noticed I forgot to type in “from people” who aren’t complete and utter losers. Nonsensical original sentence makes no sense.
July 17th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
someone else’s summary got pretty much all of it, but here you go.
P.S.We have received a reply to our first proposal from No Name Losers. Thank you very much!
July 17th, 2010 at 9:28 pm
@anon2
Thanks for repeating the tired old talking points that a ton of people seem to be regurgitating…
1. They don’t want people outside Japan playing their games; they’re fine with gaijin residing in Japan playing (the Japanese release of) those games, though. Officially, they probably also don’t want Japanese people residing outside Japan playing those games, either. Note that their packaging says “for use in Japan only” instead of “for use by Japanese people only”.
2. You can’t be psychotic xenophobes and take vacations in foreign countries.
3. Of course a lot more Japanese people are going to be pirating their own games. This is because… *drumroll* a lot more Japanese people can actually enjoy those games!
July 17th, 2010 at 10:34 pm
@100;Metaler:
Ungrateful because you were counting on them to make free translations and they decided to engage in talks for commercial releases?
“We’re appreciating their work, and this is what we get?”
>>implying that your/our appreciation is worth anything
July 18th, 2010 at 2:43 am
I say jolly good, if Minori’s “proposal” with NNL actually comes to fruition. Goodness knows that the gaijin fans and VN industry need to come to a better understanding of one another. I don’t see why they were pissed off with ef specifically (and not, say, Wind. Speaking of which, neither are in production anymore anyway), but if all this hoopla will make them ease up a bit on fan translations, then we have a win-win … Right?
July 18th, 2010 at 10:05 am
zalas: If you don’t see anything wrong with “in japan only” then we have nothing further to discuss.
July 18th, 2010 at 10:56 am
@anon2 You’re point is completely moot if Minori and NNL are discussing something for overseas fans, so I’m not even gonna bother with that since you’re completely ignoring the issue at hand.
If they’re trolling us and they’re just discussing what it’ll take NNL to screw off, then you can start complaining.
July 18th, 2010 at 9:43 pm
@105 (anon2):
for all its worth, I bought a number of software that are “For US and Canada” only, and others that are for “For the UK” only. I even bought software that refused to “activate” because I wasn’t living in the “US or Canada.”
Please, if you have a problem with “To be sold in Japan” and try to address the problem at your own backyard first.
P.S. This is not including digital stores that refuse to sale to you because you are not in the allowed regions to buy from.
July 19th, 2010 at 1:32 am
[...] Via: encubed. [...]
July 20th, 2010 at 10:26 am
[...] The Japanese visual novel production company minori, responsible for ef A Tale of Memories has confirmed that it is in active discussions with fan translation group No Name Losers regarding a possible [...]
July 21st, 2010 at 2:51 am
Another update from the minori website.
2010年7月21日、私たちは、私たちの作品を英語圏でリリースするため、NO NAME LOSERSの皆さんに協力を頂き、新たな枠組みを構築する作業を続けています。
本件については7月28日以降に新たなお知らせをできればと思います。
いましばらくお待ち下さい。
Translation someone?
July 21st, 2010 at 4:43 am
the outcome was positive and the official announcement, on the way to release the English version with the cooperation of NNL, will be made on the 28th of this month.
but again… wait for someone else to give you the full translation.
July 21st, 2010 at 9:19 pm
At least it sounds like NNL actually got through minori’s thick skull and gave them quite a wake-up call.
July 22nd, 2010 at 3:28 am
go NNL!
July 22nd, 2010 at 7:55 am
NNL updated their site, albeit in a small way
No Name Losers is down until further notice.
We are currently undergoing serious discussions with minori.
Please wait a little longer.
Now the discussions are “serious”, not preliminary, and they are with the whole of minori, not just the CEO.
July 22nd, 2010 at 8:13 am
@NM64 (112)
Yeah, maybe NNL got annoying enough that this is the best way to get them to go away ;)
July 23rd, 2010 at 4:54 pm
I would imagine if they do come to a deal NNL will have to cease all fan translation activities, as I can’t imagine Minori actually wanting to work with people doing illegal activities.
July 24th, 2010 at 2:42 am
Not sure if this was there before but Eden*’s status is at the bottom of NNL’s page. Looks like they possibly will be carrying on with fan translation?
July 24th, 2010 at 3:35 am
@Yojimbo No,it wasn’t there previously. Google cache confirms it.
July 24th, 2010 at 7:19 am
Find it strange since isn’t Eden a Minori game too?
July 24th, 2010 at 7:21 am
Some youtube vid up now too lol Wonder what NNL are doing =P
July 24th, 2010 at 8:45 am
What’s with the youtube video?
July 24th, 2010 at 8:52 am
Ah… NNL’s way of hinting via using random YouTube videos
Unfortunately I don’t get the hint either lol
July 24th, 2010 at 10:02 am
Obviously NNL are the girl team. And minori is the married couple.
July 24th, 2010 at 11:41 am
well, the vid is ef’s op, so that might be a hint at the progress of Genuine Draft. Or, the music has a “the end of something great” feel, so it could be that its actually ending.
July 24th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
update, nnl’s site now has an audio file. Seems like one of the background songs of ef maybe.
July 24th, 2010 at 8:42 pm
Ahh… There we go, things are finally back in a realm I can understand, however superficially.
NNL is trolling us again, in their characteristic way, with these various bits of media.
This is reminiscent of their “24 hour countdown” and “blastoff” trolls from last time they blanked their site for minori.
I really want to say that the announcement on the 28th will be that they are going to continue ignoring minori, but… I’ve been wrong every step of the way so far, so who knows?
As I’ve said before, as long the outcome results in an English translation and release of eden*, legal, illegal, or ‘grey’, it works for me.
I don’t really care what happens to ef at this point; I already have “ef light” and that’s good enough for me. People waiting for Genuine Draft are just perfectionists (or OCD) in my opinion…
Well, I’ve talked myself into enough corners for the time being. Let’s sit back and watch every one of my assumptions be brutally deposed, one after another, shall we?
July 24th, 2010 at 9:29 pm
>>126
AMEN.
July 25th, 2010 at 6:07 pm
Would they even be selling any Minori Japanese titles outside Japan? Not like they are taking much away from their revenue.
July 25th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
The audio file is gone on nnl’s site
July 26th, 2010 at 4:01 am
It’s still there.
July 26th, 2010 at 7:39 am
Hm. It has disappeared. Probably just NNL’s trolling.
July 26th, 2010 at 7:41 am
What an idiot I am. It was the IE browser’s fault.
July 26th, 2010 at 10:35 am
Same issue w/ me, just with Opera
July 28th, 2010 at 6:54 am
I just want my Eden* translated :(
July 28th, 2010 at 5:50 pm
So it’s the 29th over there now, huh? Guess that event or announcement supposed to happen on the 28th never did come to fruition.
July 28th, 2010 at 6:52 pm
maybe minori knows its not the 28th over here, so they planned on waiting til our 28th to make teh announcement
July 28th, 2010 at 9:56 pm
>>136
It’s the 28th or the 29th everywhere in the world right now, I’m pretty sure…
Minori and NNL have collectively trolled us, I guess.
July 28th, 2010 at 10:12 pm
nah,
I think they did do the announcement, they just forgot that they have blocked our access to their site (j/k)
by they way, if this deal is successful, wouldn’t this mean that NNL is the first fan translation/subbing group to make an *official* deal with the Japanese right hold? Note, I am not writing about members of the group forming a company, or selling their translation to licensing company. But the group itself, while under their fan name, making a deal the Japanese company and using the group name in their deal.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:31 am
Announcement seems to have been delayed.
minori:
7月29日追記：少し遅れていますが、あと数日で何らかのお知らせができる可能性があります。
今しばらくお待ち下さい。
NNL:
There was to be an announcement on July 28th, but it has been temporarily delayed for special reasons.
Hopefully we can announce something within the next 48 hours. (July 30th or 31st)
Thank you for your continuing patience.
July 29th, 2010 at 5:03 am
I’m not holding my breath
July 29th, 2010 at 7:29 am
I would totally buy anything published officially in English by a minori/nnl/(publisher) team. But like most people here, I doubt it’ll happen.
July 29th, 2010 at 8:25 am
For all the trolling they do, at the end of the day NNL usually delivers:
1) I wasn’t into visual novels for the whole “break the support disc” nonsense, but the patch for wind was eventually made available.
2) The “minori mystery meat” thing on April Fools day turned out to be a nice little demo of eden.
3) Then there was all the BS following minori’s original C&D requests to both TL Wiki and NNL. And the end of the day they delivered their standalone version of ef.
I honestly can’t guess what the results of these “talks” are going to be. NNL likes to troll, we all know this. Quite frankly I find it very entertaining and it does show some level of marketing savvy, after all they keep the conversation going with whatever they do.
What is clear from their history, for all the BS all the teasing all the trolling. They talk the talk, but they also walk the walk as it were. THEY DELIVER RESULTS. SOMETHING will come of this and its going to be interesting.
July 29th, 2010 at 9:56 am
Why do people feel the need to choose a side, NNL or minori?
Both groups are a bunch of self-righteous cocks who do really good work and deserve to be respected for it. NNL has our interests in mind more than minori, but is also flat-out the group “in the wrong”. So there’s no reason to pick one or the other. I would personally just be happy to see this mess be over with.
And if it works out for the best, I’m really happy for both groups. All the hate against minori will dissipate along with their IP block, they’ll make an alright amount of money, and NNL will have gone commercial. Honestly, I wish Akabeesoft2 would approach TLWiki with a business proposal for g-senjou, haha.
July 30th, 2010 at 5:22 pm
[...] to try and negotiate some sort of agreement with Visual Art’s, similar to how No Name Losers has been negotiating with minori this month. In the event that these negotiations fail, Tengu Translations has [...]
July 30th, 2010 at 8:42 pm
what the fuck is so hard about minori just letting NNL realese a pacth for Eden I mean go people need to buy the game to pacth it anyway jeeze I JUST WANT TO PLAY EDEN IN ENGLISH WHY IS THAT SO FUCKING HARD TO DO
July 31st, 2010 at 12:52 am
Minori has removed pretty much of its website content, with the statement “We’ll be back soon.”
July 31st, 2010 at 2:16 am
What’s with minori? In their website, they posted “KEEP MINORITY SPIRIT”. What is that suppose to mean?
July 31st, 2010 at 2:37 am
@147 Thats their catch-phrase. You know, a play on their name Minori and the word Minority.
July 31st, 2010 at 5:28 am
@148 Oh I don’t know about that. lol, Thanks. :)
August 2nd, 2010 at 6:10 am
Seeing Minori and NNL’s websites mirror each other like that makes me feel like I’m getting double trolled xD
August 4th, 2010 at 1:41 am
lol minority spirit
August 8th, 2010 at 10:09 am
update from NNL:
“2010.08.08. We apologize once again for the extended delay. We are still in the middle of negotiations.
However, we can tell you these:
- Swells is canceled. We can’t reveal what it really was, but it wasn’t a minori title.
- All fansubbed work, including ef and Wind -a breath of heart- , has been discontinued.
- The old web site in its no-frills “blog” format will no longer exist.
Thank you for your understanding. We appreciate your patience. “
August 21st, 2010 at 11:33 am
Another update-
2010.08.21. We have mostly agreed to final terms and are awaiting a response from the other involved parties.
A new web site is being created. Hopefully we can reveal the details soon!
-
and then all the stuff from before is under it.
September 2nd, 2010 at 5:41 pm
yet another update,
new song on the front page called “only one” and a new poll named “Only one… what’s your favorite?” then giving options of various minori games.
also, check out their new page title, “No Name Losers – A division of Minori inc.”
September 4th, 2010 at 11:19 am
Eyyy, what if that other option, Footsteps of Spring, was Swells? And this is like a “which of our translations should we officially release with Minori first” poll.
September 18th, 2010 at 7:27 pm
Nother update. Somethin to do with Ef I think (the pic link there) but nothing else
November 22nd, 2010 at 5:36 am
Lawyers aren’t usually renown for their business risk taking instincts. Thus when negotiating with any company for a deal, you want to bypass their lawyer goons and go to the top, where the real decisions are made.
December 3rd, 2010 at 5:33 pm
Ive vowed never to sponsor minori no matter if they have a change of heart or not. Fucking xenophobic bastards.
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encubed » News Archive » minori sends another email to NNL…
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