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NNL and minori update websites

April 26th, 2010, by zalas
Posted in Translation , Tagged: ,

The foreign-facing section of minori’s website has been updated with an added explanation of their reasoning for their recent actions, seemingly focusing on indemnification of users. They also extend a welcome for people to visit Japan and play their games there. Meanwhile, NNL has updated their website, replacing it with an embedded YouTube video of a song called Rise Again and a new title for their page: No Name Losers – We Rise Again! There appears to be some confusion about whether NNL contacted minori previously regarding Wind. It does not appear that the project team really thought that minori knew about the project, according to the project FAQ.

A translation of the full text of minori’s update is as follows (please let us know if there are issues with the translation):

2010/04/26 minori

To those of you living overseas:

Sorry for writing this in Japanese.
There are subtle nuances that we could not convey properly by trying to write this in English, so we’ve decided to write this in Japanese. Please bear with us.

Soon, it will have been one year since we at minori started blocking access from overseas.
It is extremely unfortunate that we have to update this [overseas-facing] page, instead of removing it altogether.

We are updating this page after receiving notice that minori’s software copyrights were being violated overseas.

Works published in any of the signatory countries of the WTO should be protected under copyright in all of the signatory countries. In other words, minori’s software is protected in all of the countries who are a part of the WTO.

Copyright is a collection of various rights; when playing [a video game] and you install the game from the DVD to a PC’s hard drive, this particular act normally falls under the definition of “replication.” For those of you who have bought our software, we give you permission for this act of replication if you are in Japan only. (For why, please see below) This is why minori’s software is “exclusively for use in Japan.”

Furthermore, copyright also includes “translation rights” and “public transmission rights”.
Actions such as translating from Japanese into a different language or porting from one platform to the other falls under “translation right”. Exceeding the realm of personal use and making available to the public a translated work requires the permission of minori; making available on the Internet a part of or the entirety of our software (when the right to quote a work isn’t applicable) falls under “public transmission rights”, and therefore minori’s permission is required as well. (For example, this time .sc extension script files were uploaded to a website. Uploading these files and transmitting them to an indefinite number of people is a violation of the “public transmission right”.)

There are some of you overseas who are making available to the public a translation patch for minori’s software without minori’s permission; this is a violation of “translation rights” so please refrain from these actions.

Whether you want to make publicly available a translation patch for minori’s software or if you want to sell a standalone version of the software, you must obtain minori’s permission for all these cases. Companies and groups who are interested in this please contact minori headquarters in Japan. We are prepared for negotations (However, only in Japanese).

In order to publish [eroge] software in Japan, it is imperative to have the software examined by the Ethics Organization of Computer Software (EOCS) or an equivalent ethics inspection agency and obtain a proof of legality. Likewise, there are rating agencies in places such as America, Canada, Europe (including Scandanavia, England and Germany), South Korea, Brazil, Australia and New Zealand, so it is necessary to undergo examination by the appropriate rating agency for the country in which the game is published in order to confirm that the game has no legal issues with the laws of that country. In other countries, the company/group releasing the software must bear all [legal] responsibility.

Let us set legal interpretation and procedures aside and talk more about why we at minori are so cautious about our software being distributed outside of Japan.

Lately, around us, we have been made keenly aware of many clashes of culture between Japan and other countries. Even if a certain form of expression is fine in Japan, due to a difference in culture, it appears that the same form of expression is considered problematic in other countries. Unfortunately, we at minori are not familiar with the laws outside of Japan, and we cannot determine whether our software follows the rules and regulations of other countries.

Also, after a little bit of investigation, we realized that there are countries that punish mere possession of problematic forms of expression.

In other words, we at minori believe that there’s a possibility that those of you who posssess copies of our software may face problems. (Actually, there has been cases of problems due to possession of content in America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand that would have been legal in Japan, hasn’t there?) This is based on nothing more than the fact that minori develops many pieces of software that fall under the R18 rating (Perhaps overseas this is called AO+?) and the law and regulations with respect to these forms of expressions are different in other countries. (Of course, even if something is rated all-ages in Japan doesn’t mean it will be treated as all-ages overseas. This has been the case many times with respect to animation) Thus, if such a problem occurs, minori cannot indemnify users who obtained a translated version that was produced and released without knowledge or oversight from minori, and furthermore coming with no assurances from any other party. Respecting our rights (copyright) means accepting an equivalent level of responsibilities, since rights and responsibilities are two sides of the same coin. No matter how a user obtains our work, we at minori want to prevent harm to people at all costs. This is a rule that we at minori must obey as long as we operate in public society.

We at minori are worried about exposing people who have our software to risk. In order to provide a safe and assuring environment in which to play [our games], we at minori only have the power to provide this within Japan. Therefore, if people outside Japan (specifically the English-speaking world) would like to play our games, we believe that a trustworthy third party who can provide assurances is needed.

Each country has their own culture. In order to respect each other’s culture, various different rules exist. We’ve been criticized by such lines as “minori are a bunch of foreigner-hating racists,” and we are saddened by this. We always strive for a world where everyone can be happy. The right to pursue happiness is something that should be enjoyed by everyone, and this is not something that is restricted by nationality or race. This has been said many times, but we at minori want to prevent misfortune or harm to come upon those who possess our software.

We and the fans should not bear enmity towards each other.
Our relationship should be one where we all think about how each side can be happy and how to work this within the bounds of previously mentioned rules; this is not a problem based on “inside Japan” versus “outside Japan”.

Lastly, for those of you living overseas, please come visit Japan if you want! As long as it’s within Japan and as long as you are 18 years of age or older, you can play
minori’s game software without any risks. There are many shops in Akihabara. It’s a bit hot during the summer, but it is a good place. We will be waiting for you.

for many many Overseas fan.

minori Inc.

To contact us, please send email to info@minori.ph in Japanese.

The original text is:

海外に御住まいの皆様へ。

2010年4月26日 minori

日本語で申し訳ありません。
どうしても英語ですと微妙なニュアンスが伝わらないので
日本語で書くことにしました。よろしければお付き合い下さい。

minoriが海外からのアクセスをブロックしてから、まもなく1年が経ちます。
このページを廃止するのではなく、更新しなければならない事は非常に残念です。

今回、更新したのは、海外でminoriのソフトウェアの著作権が侵害されていることをお知らせ頂いたからです。

WTOに加盟する全ての国家において発表された作品は、その加盟国全てで著作権が保護されるそうです。つまり、minoriのソフトウェアも全てのWTO加盟国で保護されていることになります。

著作権というものは、様々な権利の集合ですが、皆さんが作品をプレイする上で、DVD-ROMディスクからPCのHDDへインストールすることは、一般的に「複製」に当たると定義されています。minoriのソフトウェアを購入された方は、日本国内においてのみ複製権の許諾を受けることができます。(なぜ、日本国内のみ許諾しているかは後述の通りです)これが、minoriのソフトウェアを日本国内専用としている理由です。

また、著作権には「翻訳権」や「公衆送信権」いうものが存在します。
日本語から他国の言語へ翻訳を行うことや、動作するプラットホームを変更することは、この「翻訳権」の範疇に含まれます。個人的な利用の範疇を超えて翻訳したものを公開する場合、minoriの許可が必要となりますし、ソフトウェアの全てまたは一部をネット上で公開する行為は(引用権の範疇を除き)公衆送信権の範疇ですので、やはりminoriの許可が必要となります(例えば、今回は「.sc」という拡張子のスクリプトファイルが掲載されていましたが、そのファイルを掲載し、不特定多数に送信する行為が公衆送信権の侵害ということです)。

海外の方々の中には、minoriのソフトウェアを翻訳するパッチをminoriに許可を得ず公開されていらっしゃる方もいらっしゃいますが、これは「翻訳権」の侵害ですので行わないようにしてください。

海外でminoriのソフトのを翻訳してパッチを公開したい場合や、ソフトウェア自体をスタンドアローンで販売したい場合は、全て、minoriの許可が必要です。もし、これらの行為をお望みの会社、団体がいらっしゃるようでしたら、是非、日本のminori本社へコンタクトを取ってください。minoriは交渉を受ける準備があります(ただし、日本語のみになります)。

日本でソフトウェアをリリースする場合、コンピュータソフトウェア倫理機構(EOCS)やその他同等の倫理審査団体の審査を受け、合法的であることの証明を取らなければなりません。同じように、アメリカやカナダ、ヨーロッパ(北欧、イギリス、ドイツを含む)、韓国、ブラジル、オーストラリア、ニュージーランドなどにはレーティングを行う団体がありますので、当該国でのリリースにはその団体の審査を受け、当該国の法律上問題が無いか確認する必要があります。 それ以外の国でのリリースの場合、リリースする会社や団体が全ての責任を負う必要があります。

法律的な解釈や手続きの問題はさておき、なぜ、これほどまで、minoriが日本国外にminoriのソフトウェアが流通することに慎重になるのか、もう少し詳しくお話したいと思います。

ここのところ、私たちの周辺では、日本と他国における文化の違いを痛感することが多くなりました。日本では問題無い表現も、その文化の違いから、他の国ではNGということもあるようです。そして、残念ながら私たちは日本国外の法律に疎く、minoriのソフトウェアが他国の法令に則しているかどうか判断できません。

また、少々調べてみると、その国において表現的に問題のあるソフトウェアを所有しているだけでも罰せられる国があるという事実を知りました。

つまり、minoriは、皆さんがminoriのソフトウェアを所有している事によって、様々な問題に直面する可能性があるかもしれないと考えているのです(実際に、アメリカやカナダ、オーストラリア、ニュージーランドでは日本では合法のコンテンツを所有していることが問題になったことがありますよね?)。これは、minoriのソフトウェアがいわゆるR18基準(海外ではAO+と言うのでしょうか?)によって制作されているものが多く、その表現に対する規制や法律が日本とその他の国々で異なるからに他なりません(もちろん日本では全年齢だからといって、海外でそのまま全年齢扱いになるとも限りません。アニメーションなどではよくあることのようです)。そして、もし、そのような事態が起きた時、minoriの知るところの外側で制作され、minoriがまったく監修せず、かつ誰も保証していない状態で勝手にリリースされた翻訳版を所有しているユーザーの皆さんをminoriは援護することができません。私たちの権利(著作権)が認められるということは、それ相応の義務も背負っているということです。権利と義務は表裏一体なのです。例えどのような手段で入手されたユーザーであれ、minoriの作品が人に傷を負わせることは絶対に避けなければなりません。これは、minoriが人間社会で活動していく上で守っていかなくてはならないルールだからです。

minoriはminoriのソフトウェアを所有する方にリスクを負わせることを心配しています。安全かつ安心してプレイできる環境を提供できるのは、minoriの力では今のところ日本国内だけということなのです。ですから、もし、日本国外(ことさら英語圏)でminoriのソフトをプレイして頂くとすれば、信頼のおける第三者機関の保証が必要とであると考えているのです。

それぞれの国にはそれぞれの文化があります。お互いの文化を尊重するために、それぞれ異なったルールが存在しています。「minoriはガイジン嫌いのレイシスト」だとご批判を受けることがありますが、その度に私たちは悲しくなります。私たちはいつだって、世界が幸せになることを追求しています。幸せになる権利は誰にも平等にあるもので、それは国や人種に囚われるものではありません。何度も書くようですが、minoriのソフトを所有していることで傷を負い不幸になることがあってはならないのです。

私たちとファンの皆様は憎しみ合う関係であってはなりません。
お互いがどうしたら幸せになれるのか、そして、それはどういったルールの中で行わなければならないのか、一緒に考えていかなければならない関係なのです。これは日本国内、国外といった枠組みにとらわれた問題ではありません。

最後に、外国に御住まいの皆様。もしよろしければ、ぜひ日本へいらしてください! minoriのソフトウェアは日本国内でプレイする限り、あなたが18歳以上であれば何のリスクも無くプレイできます。秋葉原には沢山のショップがあります。夏はちょっと暑いですが、いいところです。お待ちしております。

for many many Overseas fan.

minori Inc.

minoriへのご連絡はinfo@minori.phへ日本語でお願いします。

(the following section was moved from the previous article in order to balance out article sizes)

Whether to contact minori or not was a point of discussion amongst the project members before the release on the Wind patch. The project FAQ, last updated in 2007, read:

Was this project endorsed by minori?

No. To our knowledge, minori has no idea that we’ve done this. If they do know, then they are not acknowledging it for their own reasons. Every single bit of this project was voluntary work, and no one from insani or NNL was monetarily compensated in any way by minori.

The FAQ page is currently not available from the NNL website (the rest of the Wind project page hasn’t been online for some time), but it is still available as of this writing in Google’s cache.

Comments

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  1. Anya Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 9:49 am

    I am saddened by this wall of text; how does minori strive for happiness in this world is beyond me.

  2. anon Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    tl;dr

    come to play our games if you want to play. filthy pirate gaijins.

  3. Pirkaf Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    I’m glad there are companies in Japan who take their foreign fans seriously and let Peter Pan and Mangagamer publish their games in English. Big thumb down to Minori! I hope nnl will release ef for us after all.

  4. anon Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    >2

    come to play our games IN JAPAN if you want to play. filthy pirate gaijins.

  5. TheDefend Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 10:28 am

    “We at minori are worried about exposing people who have our software to risk. In order to provide a safe and assuring environment in which to play [our games], we at minori only have the power to provide this within Japan. Therefore, if people outside Japan (specifically the English-speaking world) would like to play our games, we believe that a trustworthy third party who can provide assurances is needed.”

    VERY FUNNY considering how MANY hikikomori(sorry if i actually offend anyone) actually playing their games. & WITH MORE EVENTS LIKE THIS, WHO THE HELL WOULD WANT TO PUBLISH YOUR GAME KNOWING THE GAME WONT SELL ANYMORE!

    “We and the fans should not bear enmity towards each other.

    Our relationship should be one where we all think about how each side can be happy and how to work this within the bounds of previously mentioned rules; this is not a problem based on “inside Japan” versus “outside Japan”.”

    YOUR FUCKING STUPIDITY LIKE THIS IS THE ONE THAT CAUSE PPL TO HATE YOU MORON

    “Lastly, for those of you living overseas, please come visit Japan if you want! As long as it’s within Japan and as long as you are 18 years of age or older, you can play

    minori’s game software without any risks. There are many shops in Akihabara. It’s a bit hot during the summer, but it is a good place. We will be waiting for you.”
    WHY DONT YOU PROVIDE THE FUCKING VISA AND TAKING CARE OF THE PAPERWORK BITCH

  6. nebosuke Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 11:06 am

    I look forward to the release of ef from NNL (gives finger to minori)

  7. zalas Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 11:18 am

    >>5
    Well, at least for people with a US passport, a visa is not required to visit Japan as a tourist for up to 90 days.

  8. keeki-roru Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 11:40 am

    There sure is a lot of butthurt from you guys.

  9. Buttmad Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Yea, minori. I’m going to pay for that plane ticket just so I can sit in a hotel to play ef in a language I can’t even read.

  10. le nuage Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    At least Minori has a point when they say that we can face problems just buy pocessing hentai stuff.
    It happened in the US with the guy and his 2D loli porn.

  11. anon Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Why do they care if people get in trouble over possession in other countries… whoever buys loli porn from foreign countries should carry the responsibility all by themselves.

  12. someone else Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Honestly there are two things that pisses me off the most in all this drama. First of all minori’s attitude. This filling that they want to be my nanny just because I like their games. Even if stuff they produce is illegal all around the world except Japan I want to be able to judge for myself if I’m ready to take such risk or not. It’s my responsibility to know what is legal in my country and what is not and it is my responsibility to take the odds if it is undoubtedly illegal. They are a game producing company not the UN to worry about the whole world and laws in every country you could (or could not) find on the world political map.
    And second generalization and hypocrisy. In the same note they speak about their rights to destroy translation project and limit availability of the game being protected all around the world and they inform that they ban everyone because their game MIGHT be illegal in some parts of the world. Law does not work like this. Anything is legal until law says otherwise pretty much everywhere. It should be also noted that there are jurisdictions which don’t forbid translation, reverse engineering and even piracy if it’s non-profit.
    Also there is some nice interpretation of copyright law if installation suddenly falls under “replication”.
    On a side note if my country is not in the WTO does this mean that I could legally say minori to fuck off?

  13. Eriol-kun Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    I agree with >> 11. Their audience/customer base should be of legal age, so I’m sure that when a person buys such a product, he/she should be aware of the legal stance of their own action in their own country. If they’re not then they’re just retards.

  14. anon 2 Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    why is everyone angry that minori cares so much about their fans they don’t them want to be arrested for playing games that might be illegal in their country?

  15. anon2 Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    It’s ridiculous that they even give a remote shit. It’s just people being stupid, even Japanese people can be total retards. If anything, the TL of EF or eden gives them more $ and fans (and it does, several people have imported them games in anticipation for a patch), it cannot possibly hurt them. It can’t hurt the players of said games either, obviously. People don’t exactly setup hidden cameras to watch other people playing eroge waiting to see if they do the fucking loli route, jesus christ this entire thing is retarded.

    fuck.

  16. 日本の大陸 Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    俺のチンポぁ大きき

  17. zalas Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    >>12
    Frankly, it wasn’t too surprising that they would go after someone who made translation patches of their games, let alone someone distributing standalone releases, since they previously went after someone in Japan (who I believe settled) for making a software application (ExtractData) of which one of its capabilities was extraction of data files from archives in minori’s games. As for installation, at least in the United States there have been cases about the issue (e.g. MAI vs. Peak). Lastly, yes if you are in one of the small handful of countries who are not signatories to the Berne, WIPO, etc. treaties, you can legally do whatever in that country.

    >>11,13,15
    I wonder if it has something to do with the Japanese cultural aspect of not wanting to cause trouble for others (meiwaku) taken to the extreme. A lot of Japanese products have tons of warnings on them, some of them being simply common sense. Perhaps the warnings you see for televised animation also fall under this category. One would think that this could simply be due to the fact that lack of warnings would open them up for lawsuits, but lawsuits seem to be rare and difficult to do in Japan. :/

    Sadly, I can only provide a translation of the literal text, and not all of the cultural aspects associated with it, such as the aforementioned idea as well as explicit and implicit meanings (what they say versus what they actually mean), etc.

  18. Belgaesh Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    Thanks zalas, for translating the issue for those who don’t understand japanese.

  19. Aaeru Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    I think 17 expressed it good.

    “No matter how a user obtains our work, we at minori want to prevent harm to people at all costs. This is a rule that we at minori must obey as long as we operate in public society.”

    Minori has made their point pretty clear, they literally saying, ‘we don’t want you to go to jail because of us’. The other point is ‘we don’t want to lengthen the gap between our cultures that is already in place’.

    Their responses seem very Japanese. Very Japanese-company like. Do your own thing. Do business but don’t cause trouble for anyone. They come from a country very different from ours where defying social boundaries is Always severely punished.

    Also if anyone is wondering, I think 16 is saying that his dick is engorging.

  20. lolwut? Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    minori is pretty much giving their non-japanese fans (or former fans by now) the finger.. It’s more like: “You’re welcome to enjoy our products, but you’re not allowed to possess it in the country you live in or read it in a language you can understand.” Well, at least they haven’t left us in the dust to rot just yet. We are encouraged to spend our vacation in Japan so we can read a book (Visual Novel). Wether or not we are able to enjoy it is obviously none of their concern.
    I happen to be a big fan of visual novels (even with lolis). Although I live up here in Norway I can thankfully look elsewhere for eroge to enjoy. It may not be minori products, but tbh I don’t really give a s**t. I was actually looking forward to reading ef, but thankfully I didn’t import the game until the patch was supposed to be out. At least Mangagamer’s Kira Kira Curtain Call will be out in 3 days (<3), so there’re still plenty of visual novels to enjoy.

  21. zalas Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    >>20
    There was no intention of a patch-only release from NNL anyway.
    I wonder if this is a secret move to help Microsoft in Japan, since in addition to flying to Japan, you’ll need to either buy the Japanese version of Windows or a computer with the Japanese version of Windows to install their software if we’re doing everything by the book. <_<;

  22. Anon Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    I guess its really easy to start screaming that minori is being stupid for refusing to bow down to their ‘foreigner fans’ (even if most of them are just pirates who somehow cannot stomach the creators having any form of say with regards to the game they made). Isn’t it quite very obvious that they don’t want the problems associated with you gaijins, even with the $$$ we (supposedly) are bringing them? There would be factors and/or sentiments within the company that nobody knows about (ever created content for sale and have them hosted on some wiki without your permission? Translation patches which brings another round of mad torrenting in the gaijin community?).

    No. MINORI IS STUPID FOR DISSING US HOLY GAIJINS, THEY ARE GIVING UP THE MONEY WHICH WE (theoretically) WOULD BE ABLE TO BRING THEM, THUS COMPOUNDING THEIR STUPIDITY. YOU CANNOT FUCKING RESTRICT US DAMMIT. HOLY GAIJINS FOREVAR.

  23. someone else Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    >>17
    I guess I worded my last point badly, I did not mean it to be a real question, It was more a sarcasm towards minori because there are countries which are not members of WTO but still enforce copyright and recognize Berne, WIPO and other international treaties. It is one more of minori’s legal fallacies like trying to apply DMCA to Canada when it is US-only and such.
    This is why I personally think that minori is just trying to scare everyone but they won’t be able to take it to a international lawsuit when such basic errors are made in “blackmail letters”.

    Also thank you for translating and keeping everyone in touch with progress on this issue and what not. It is better to be informed after all.

  24. Doku Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    The amount of butthurt and “Fuck you midori” in here is disappointing me.
    Guess what? Piracy and copyright infringement are illegal. If the copyright holder finds out, why wouldn’t they want to stop it?

    Now, translation patches are hardly piracy, and they don’t really hurt sales at all, since the people they are made for wouldn’t have been able to even read the game in the first place, so why would they have previously bought it? In that way, patches could potentially increase sales by a few dozen copies or so…

    NNL, on the other hand, was releasing ef as standalone applications, making the purchase of the game redundant. The distribution of NNL’s ef translation actually IS piracy, unlike most VN translations.

    HOWEVER, this did not start with ef, it started with Eden*, which as far as we know, was going to be released as a patch only. Still, there are potential ways a patch could hurt sales, assuming midori intended to license one of these titles to a company like mangagamer. If mangagamer translated a novel that already had a well established fan translation (without taking over or shutting down that project first), many of their already limited buyer pool would already have the game, and have no need to buy it. If midori had intentions to sell their games to an English speaking market eventually, it would be in their business interests to prevent the creation and distribution of fan translations.

    Of course, the main point here is midori’s strange statements about not wanting to get “fans” in trouble with the law. Unless that is just a total pretense only intended to mask their true capitalist intentions (and if that is the case, I have to agree, “fuck midori”), I have no choice but to agree with 19. The cultural gap they refer to is perhaps the very reason why we cannot understand their reason for caring so much about what their fans are doing.

    At this point, I think it would probably expose their true intentions if one of the groups involved here (NNL, Sekai Project, Coalguys, etc) were to contact midori and offer to produce a translation patch and take legal responsibility for its users. Since a patch alone (as I said above) can’t hurt their sales (Unless they plan to sell to English Audiences, which their comments seem to strongly imply that they don’t), their rejection of a patch-only plan would probably expose some ulterior motive than simply “keeping an eye out for their fans.”

  25. The Circle of Hate in the Visual Novel Community | zanaikin | Major Arcana Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    [...] for them and nego­ti­ate our resis­tance in a proper man­ner, rather than scream­ing in all-caps rage like we have some kind of God-ordained right to piracy. You resolve xeno­pho­bia by being civil, [...]

  26. Ronald Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    To sum it all up, minori said this.

    “If you’re not in Japan, fu*k of. You can’t play our games…DUH…copyrights, copyrights”.

  27. Eriol-kun Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    >> 24

    minori. And it seems minori itself already stated that they don’t want anything like a fan translation out there (alluding to “Actions such as translating from Japanese into a different language or porting from one platform to the other falls under “translation right”…” stated above)

    So such ideas may be out of reach by now.

  28. RexRox Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Wait, so they cite the WTO for the copyright protections, but fail to mention their contravention of WTO agreements by attempting to limit the software to Japan?

    minori so smart.

  29. Chass Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Duh, you need to hack the game to make a translation patch after all, and that’s copyright infringement…

  30. Dan88 Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    The linked video was set to private.

  31. Asin Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    And now the video changed.. the song its the same.. its catchy~

  32. Chass Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    They changed it LOL

  33. Mari Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    We rise again! in the faces of our children
    We rise again.. in the voices of our song
    We rise again! in the out of the ocean
    And the…eeen we RISE AGAIN!

    Catchy.. we may not have Ef but we have a catchy song that talks about never surrendering and leaving a better world for the next generations, and thats what it matters, right guys!? Guys?!

  34. someone else Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    >>24
    Minori expressed that they want a contact to be in their office, in japan, in japanese and “group” should not only take responsibility and buy license rights but also take game through a rating board in the market they plan to sell to. And this pretty much implies a lot of unnecessary costs and splitting of already small market. This is of course assuming minori would not demand insane license fees.

    Also I find it highly ironic that minori’s actions and knee-jerk reactions are not really that different from people and politicians who started all this rapelay and “obscene comics” mess. One group assumes that government should step in and whole industry should be regulated just because of one game they found offensive. Another group assumes that overseas you could go to jail for mere possession of a game because of a few isolated cases when people were found guilty of possession of “obscene” materials which originated from japan. Honestly both cases are perfect examples of a simple moral panic.

  35.   Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    Remember how all “insult” games got pulled off of Japanese shelves a few months back because CNN thought it could get some hits off of putting an eroge on its front page and acting offended?

    Probably not, because pirates have very selective memory…

  36. Kylaran Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    Obviously some of you fail to follow their logic. Some of you do, which is good. This is what they argue:

    1.) We have the right to take legal action when our copyright is being violated.
    2.) It is being violated by an unauthorized fan translation which is distributing our hard work for free.
    3.) Copyright infringement should stop; if people want to play our games, they can buy it.
    4.) However, buying out games means that they buy something that, while is legal in Japan, might be illegal in their home country.
    5.) Thus, we take the simple way out by simply preventing this as much as possible. Namely, that we restrict access to our website to prevent possible legal friction.
    6.) For those that do want to enjoy the games, they should enjoy them in Japan where it is legal. But since no one in Japan would pay for an English translation domestically (since they’re all Japanese), there will be no English version at all.
    7.) Sacrificing foreign fans is the only way to keep everyone happy.

    These notions of happiness and business are, as Aaeru >>19 said, very Japanese. However, they are rational and justified. Those who feel offended by this should take a step and look at what they themselves are saying.

  37. Minorigate and Its Implications » Behind The Nihon Review Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    [...] eden* page. Now, for those of you who remember, minori was one of the first eroge companies to block website access from foreign IPs last year after the Rapelay controversy exploded, citing a fear of [...]

  38. Anon Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    In the end, minori is just a bunch of fucking pussies who are afraid of getting their ass handed by government law and taking out their anger and blame on us fucking dirty gaijins.

    Yeah well FUCK YOU minori. We keep minority spirit my fucking ass. Go shove your fucking ef and eden up your fucking minority ass.

  39. Anon Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    “This has been said many times, but we at minori want to prevent misfortune or harm to come upon those who possess our software.”

    Bad excuse. You really want to save your own hide. At least have the balls to tell the truth.

  40. Aaeru Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    I feel that 2010 is not the year to be convincing a closed minded Japanese company to swing sides. Wait for the ‘tension’ to settle down, wait about 3-4 years and I am certain there will be minori english translation projects floating around again.

    Also a lot of people don’t understand that the handful number of sales we generate from a translation patch is NOT worth the trouble for them! Numbers in the range of a few dozen is not a very convincing argument to a profit driven organization at all. Come back again when our numbers have grown and exceed the hundreds. At Least.

    And go read comment 32 again. It’s a good one.

  41. ilovecoke Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    random question here but…
    where do u guys buy the japanese visual novel games..
    himeyashop is fkin expesnvie..-_-

  42. Anon Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    All of the import shops are expensive (Himeyashop, Paletweb).

    You want to play it, gotta pay $$. Or you can just pirate it like all the foreign dirty gaijins.

  43. ilovecoke Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 8:45 pm

    bawww its 7000 yen/74bucks in japan and himeya sells for like 100 bucks T_T

  44. Anon Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    It’s because of the importing price. Not cheap that’s for sure.

  45. zalas Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    There are also some cheaper alternatives for some games like Gin’iro and Katahane on download sales sites. Himeya charges that much because they have to turn a profit on a low volume business. I think ordering on Amazon JP through a shipping-only service like DankeDanke is slightly cheaper if you want EMS, but I don’t think it’s as fast as HimeyaShop due to the extra transit involved.

    Visual novels are expensive, but so is anime in Japan. Getting the entire first season of CLANNAD was around 30,000 yen for me with the preorder discounts on Amazon and not including shipping. You don’t get the animation with the visual novel version, but it’s also cheaper.

  46. Anon Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    Let’s be honest. EVERYTHING in Japan is more expensive.

  47. Anon Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 10:16 pm

    Oh wow what a bunch of jerks.
    I’m pretty sure I know german law well enough to know if I can get in trouble for playing their games.

  48. Nanashi Says:
    April 26th, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    HAHAHAHAHAHA GOOD WORK MINORI!

  49. anon Says:
    April 27th, 2010 at 12:07 am

    I don’t know anymore…I’m just so sad.
    I understand minori intention about not giving people or fans problem.
    but if they’re doing it like this… in the first place, getting the game itself is difficult (money-wise).
    how can we enjoy the game if we can’t go overseas? it’s not like the opportunities for each person are the same, (sure you can just order it but you know what minori already said). some of us who have waited for translation because we can’t read Japanese are waiting for the release and “they” just crush that hope.
    yeah we’re just a sacrifice. sorry for my bad English, I’m just a poor fellow fans of VN who is not an English native speaker. I’m just speaking honestly, and if there is any offense in my post, you may delete it.
    by the way, thank you for translating the announcement update.

  50. nanashi Says:
    April 27th, 2010 at 1:16 am

    >>17 and >>34 are the best comments.

    Also, I would like to know why we love to call ourselves “dirty gaijin” and act like Japan was more xenophobic/racist than most European countries (specially Eastern ones). The truth is, most Westerners are the truly racist ones with ignorant delusions about a country they never actually lived in. Then they proceed to be racist against the Japanese and make the situation look even worse for the Japanese visual novel industry.

    If you’re reading this, Minori, please understand not all of us are angry. Many respect your decision.

  51. nanashi Says:
    April 27th, 2010 at 1:18 am

    Also, I’m not the same as >>46.

  52. random.idiot Says:
    April 27th, 2010 at 1:39 am

    my 2 cents

    1- “For sale in Japan” doesn’t make it illegal to sale/buy it else where. It is their to cover the suppliers behind. I have plenty of items that are for “Sale in US and Canada” or “Sale in the UK” or “Sale in [insert some east Asia country]“. If the “For sale in” made it illegal to buy it else where, then Duty-free shops will close down. The text is there to protect the supplier, not the consumer. (tl;dr? the text “For sale in Japan” means nothing if you legally bought the item).

    2- INAL so am not sure how the copyright law works, but since minori is _NOT_ providing the English fans with an alternative. Doesn’t that mean that they can’t prove that harm is been done to them? (but again, I am a random idiot, so ignore me)

    3- why the butthurt over this? get on with your lives and simply ignore minori releases from here onwards. (unless they make the effort to Translate their own titles)

  53. krdskrm Says:
    April 27th, 2010 at 1:39 am

    The letter is written in a polite and calm manner. They just don’t want to be involved in a lot of legal complications that they might encounter outside of Japan. That’s all.

  54. Shuffleblade Says:
    April 27th, 2010 at 2:02 am

    Firstly thanks for translating this for us!

    ->34
    You are basically right in what they are saying but its is so utterly stupid is horrendous.
    Lets see here, we are not allowed to translate or own a copy simply because they have the power to stop us from it? They are saying: “We have a copyright by law that we by no means plan to make use of but do not think we will let others use it anyway”.

    Stopping us from having it only hurts their sales if anything(not to mention the cost in salaries for taking the time to stop us), if someone goes to jail for owning their games its no way they will have to take any responsibility for that. Additionally their games have H stuff that is not allowed in all countries, OH NO! What would happen if someone leaked those pictures to the interwebz and people went to jail overseas for having copies of their pictures on their computer? :-o

    They want to go “safe” don’t fucking create hentai stuff from the get-go because it will spread, to enforce copyright in this way is hypocrisy.

    I do agree that this could be a case of extreme Japanese culture of not wanting to make trouble for others as previously stated and its pure “goodwill”, even then it pisses me off. Someone getting their game would probably have 20 others games lying around, going to court for 20 games or 21, makes a dif?

  55. Claw Says:
    April 27th, 2010 at 2:15 am

    If ef and eden were tentacle loli rape guro games, then maybe i could understand them. But they aren’t, so i don’t get it, what do they have to fear?

    It’s so stupid, i still hope this is just one big troll by nnl, you never know lol.

  56. Aaeru Says:
    April 27th, 2010 at 7:05 am

    >>50
    1. I think that’s why they say they don’t know. They don’t know enough English to work out how overseas laws operate, right from left. It could be legal it might not be, they’re not sure. All they know is that overseas media is giving them shit, their business is being threatened and the Otaku are in outcry over us. Can’t communicate = give up.

    Hit up the right 2chan threads and I am sure it is chock full of Otaku shouting ‘Fuck the foreigners’. They think they are going to lose many loli’s.

  57. Shuffleblade Says:
    April 27th, 2010 at 7:30 am

    You people seem to have a misunderstanding here, american law can do nothing against stuff japan produces. Lets say I fly to Amsterdam and legally buy 5kg of weed, flies back to america and gets busted. It doesn’t matter I bought it legally there, it doesn’t matter at all, its my responsibility for carrying it over. Even if America wanted to do something about it there is no way for them to do so, a country can’t sue or otherwise prosecute another country and the company that sold the weed will be protected by the government because they did no wrong in their law. (there are exceptions from these although few, such as violation of war treaties but let me assure you there are no exceptions for different kinds of hentai or porn)

    If there was any real reason to worry about what other countries think then weed and other crack would be the first thing to go, not freaking animated porn pics.

    There are no legal risks or worries for Minori what so ever.

  58. Kiga Says:
    April 27th, 2010 at 8:37 am

    Keep translations going.
    Block japanese IPs!

  59. Jenny Says:
    April 27th, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    so basically no more translation patches for us amercians, for pop
    popular eroge, too bad my prents wont let me out of Amercia,
    this is unfortunate

  60. shinji Says:
    April 27th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    >55

    Actually, there’s the problem of the Japanese government or EOCS falling under pressure from international groups to ban this stuff in Japan. They can’t force you to change with lawsuits or anything, but they can make you look like a monster and drag you all over the media until you give in.

  61. Shuffleblade Says:
    April 27th, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    ->60

    Hmm I’m not really sure I follow, do you mean that they make the country that allows it out to be a monster or the companies themselves?

    I highly doubt that there are any way for other countries to make Japan change their open system and start banning certain genres. It works in japan, there are no trouble or any statistics that show that its bad for the country at all. By this point its part of their culture and what makes Japan unique, they know that as well. The former prime minister himself was an otaku and held speeches on the importance of protecting the otaku culture.

    The likelihood of outside media making Japan change their ways are very very slim indeed (thank the lords).

    Regarding the companies, take Minori for example, they do not intend to release anything outside of Japan… So if they get dirt thrown at them in international media I don’t think it would effect their sales what so ever. They really shouldn’t care because it doesn’t effect them. They care anyway, damnit why do japanese always have to be so polite :P (meiwaku)

  62. molitar Says:
    April 27th, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    Fuck Minori! Do they think we overseas fucking care with that kind of attitude of theirs! What assholes! It isn’t like they plan to license any of it overseas.

  63. wuhugm Says:
    April 28th, 2010 at 10:19 am

    - Minori wants us to play their games in it’s original language
    > Okay, I understand japanese a little

    - Minori wants us to play their games in Japan
    > Hell no, I have passport but no visa but the most important thing is I don’t want to spend my money for just taking a flight to Japan, rent a computer, buy a JAP ver windows, buy ef, play and jerk myself off, then take a flight back. That’s the most retarded thing evar…..

    - All minori’s games are FOR JAPAN ONLY
    > This means that any distribution of their products outside JAPAN should be out of their concern. Since by this policy it’d also means they don’t expect earnings from overseas in the first place, risk for possessing and using them is for the user only. Minori should not interfere anymore, they didn’t plan for gaijins to obtain any of their games at all, so if somehow I manage to get my hands on them, you need not to bug me off.

  64. Gambit Says:
    April 28th, 2010 at 10:23 am

    I think most of it is about money. When patch translation is complete, 95% will download the game from the internet and will be happy. And only 5% will purchase it.

    >if people outside Japan would like to play our games, we believe that a trustworthy third party who can provide assurances is needed.
    Doesn’t this mean – buy rights for this game, and after that it’s your problems, we already have our money.

    As I said earlier it’s only one of the reasons, but i think it’s the most important one.

    P.S.
    >Unfortunately, we at minori are not familiar with the laws outside of Japan
    Just Google it!

  65. wuhugm Says:
    April 28th, 2010 at 10:50 am

    How will someone be able to purchase them if it’s not being sold to overseas in the first place? So even if we manage to obtain them through legal Japanese packaging and exporting companies for example,

    Minori will still think that, and obtaining through p2p sharing, or ddl, or whatever as illegal, buying them or DL-ing them doesn’t make a difference, Minori just doesn’t fancy gaijins, else why the hell they told us to get our asses to Japan for some hours of fun? tteiuka, hontouni iku iatsu wa baka desu..

    Just like some stupid places that think

    streaming video for education & science equals to streaming a porn movies, so they ban video streaming altogether….. so crazily retarded

    The bottom line is :

    Minori doesn’t want gaijins to own, purchase, or even touch their products
    and of course, they do hate gaijins

  66. Murf Says:
    April 28th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    I think the reason (or a major one) is their denial of distribution is that they don’t want the (however slim) chance of one of their games being the next Rapelay or whatnot – being slandered all over the news will make them look bad no and possibly force more restrictions onto the industry.
    Of course, that doesn’t quite justify their response, but still, something to thing about.

  67. Shuffleblade Says:
    April 28th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    Minori are not interested in selling their games outside of japan, that simple fact removes any possibility that Minori might do this for financial gain. If you are fooled by the wording of third party than kindly re-read the start of this thread:
    “Soon, it will have been one year since we at minori started blocking access from overseas.

    It is extremely unfortunate that we have to update this [overseas-facing] page, instead of removing it altogether.”

    They block our access and they want to remove the only part of their company that has anything to do with the world outside of Japan, sounds like they give a crap?

    Follow:

    “We are updating this page after receiving notice that minori’s software copyrights were being violated overseas.”

    So basically they didn’t care about us until they find out we might get to play their game for free, then they go all “no fucking way”.

    Regarding media, that negative publication would not reach Japan at all and thus not their customers.

  68. Murf Says:
    April 28th, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    @67

    >Regarding media, that negative publication would not reach Japan at all and thus not their customers.

    But it did and will likely reach Japan again. Just look that whole EOCS fiasco not even an year ago. Media is too viral these days, perhaps to a fault.

  69. zalas Says:
    April 28th, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    >>67
    Sorry if that wasn’t clear, but “removing it altogether” means getting rid of the whole system of a separate foreign-facing page, i.e. reverting the home page situation back to before they instituted this separate page.

  70. How To Piss Off Otaku Without Really Trying | Kotaku Australia Says:
    April 28th, 2010 at 10:19 pm

    [...] eden* page. Now, for those of you who remember, minori was one of the first eroge companies to block website access from foreign IPs last year after the Rapelay controversy exploded, citing a fear of [...]

  71. Gambit Says:
    April 29th, 2010 at 9:37 am

    http://jp.gfx-beta.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page – I see a ray of hope

  72. HashiriyaR32 Says:
    April 29th, 2010 at 9:42 am

    Something gonna happen with NNL in about 24 hours, and I’m gonna guess it’s the release of “ef lite”.

  73. Wintereise Says:
    April 29th, 2010 at 10:30 am

    This is retarded and pointless.
    However polite they’re making this seem, their intents seem far from that.
    They’re basically saying, ‘Fuck off, you’re a stupid ‘gaijin’ and do not deserve to touch our games’
    After legally obtaining the product, it’s my sole responsibility. As someone already mentioned by the weed example(Good example, btw), it doesn’t concern them at all, not do they have any way of actually getting in ‘trouble’ from foreign authorities.
    So, they should just grow some balls and say it straight >_>
    I do hope the ef nnl release gets released though, it was highly anticipated.

  74. darkmind35 Says:
    April 29th, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    nonamelosers updated their site with a new video and 24 hour countdown http://nnl1.com/

  75. darkmind35 Says:
    April 29th, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    another update: looks like the project is cancelled ;(

  76. lol Says:
    April 29th, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    Looks like none of you will get your japanese pedo fiction game hahaha

  77. wuhugm Says:
    May 1st, 2010 at 9:46 am

    OMG……… NNL did it

    THEY FUC*IN DID IT!!!!!!!

  78. Shuffleblade Says:
    May 2nd, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    ->76(lol)
    roflmao

    ->69(Zalas)
    Thanks for clarifying, it wasn’t as bad as I made it out to be ^_^
    It all came out okay at least, lets just hope NNL gets away with it too =)
    Lots of thanks for the translation and all the answers.

  79. encubed » News Archive » CUFFS C&Ds TLWiki too Says:
    May 27th, 2010 at 2:11 am

    [...] Although suspicious, there is no indication so far that this move is linked to the Eden* translation project in recent days. [...]

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